He never quite gets his lead elbow up to shoulder level. And, notice in the video that by the time the lead foot lands, the elbow is already pulled down, when it still should be at shoulder level.
Thanks for the quick reply. I always appreciate getting your thoughts. We’ll get back to work on that leg swing. What are your thoughts on using a box, or cones or something to give him feedback when he swings his leg?
[quote][b]”Then at landing notice that his back hip is lower than his front hip. All because of his swinging leg which prevents back leg and hip stability at landing.”[/b] [/quote]
I didn’t notice that the first time. Looking at it now, I don’t know how I missed it. We were working on back leg extension that day, without working on the leg swing. I think we made him even more unstable. It’s good I see that now.
[quote][b]”There are two things that provide stability and power. The correct back leg/back foot action and landing on a stable and braced up front foot, leg and hip. Watch his front knee continue to drift forward after landing plus there is some movement in his front foot. Is he landing on his toe? It takes him a long time to get his front leg stable but not until after his trunk starts to rotate.”[/b] [/quote]
He is landing on his toe. That is something I know we need fixed. It really makes it hard for him to brace, especially, since he’s already started rotation at that point. I’ve noticed that his knee drifts until he gets his whole foot down, and then it braces, but he’s lost a lot by that point. I think if we fix the leg swing, and early rotation, then it will be easier to fix that landing. Thoughts?
[quote][b]”My concern is his high elbow prior to trunk rotation. That is killing his MER (maximum external rotation) because it prevent the humerus (upper arm bone) from rotating properly within the shoulder socket. This alone could also be another 5 mph lost because his forearm should be laying back parallel to the ground. Thus he is losing both range of motion and distance to apply more force to the ball. But the high elbow position is very stressful on the shoulder.”[/b] [/quote]
This is a huge concern of mine as well. I didn’t get a front shot that day so it’s hard to see, but I have front shots and it hasn’t changed. He gets a huge amount of shoulder tilt, and I’m concerned that he’s increasing his risk of injury, and taking away from his accuracy and stamina. I’d like to lower him to 3/4 instead of high 3/4, but I really don’t know how to start with that. I suspect that some of it is coming from his early front arm action is causing him to drop that glove side shoulder. I’ll have to keep an eye on that.
Thanks again. My next post will have a side and a front for sure, hopefully a back as well.
Actually you answered the knee over knee thing in your first paragraph. I looked at a couple of pictures from his sophomore season when he was throwing around 80 and his leg lift was at or slightly below waist high. It also looks like he didn’t swing his leg as much then. Incidentally, his non-throwing arm was getting near shoulder high and it isn’t now. I’m starting to see why he didn’t gain any or lost velocity this past season.
Thanks for the help.
I’m trying to get him to bring his lift leg down farther before pushing. Delaying so he has a chance to get his lift leg in better line before pushing so it stays in line rather than pushing it around. We start as he’s loosening up, going slow. Starting out with a slide step to get the feel of the leg going straight out. Then adding the leg lift, and progressively throwing harder until we notice it’s wrong, and then starting over. Early on I had him put the bucket there for a while where he’d kick it if he swung around. The problem is when the bucket is gone so were the corrections. So we started working progressively up like I described.
We have been working on both the swing and the bracing, and that’s probably our biggest mistake. And, most likely a source of frustration for Matt.
This brings up a question or two I have. On his lift he gets knee over knee, which I see a lot of guys do. But, he also rotates his shoulders. I think that rotational movement might be contributing to the swinging movement of his leg. What do you think about the posture in the lift position? Also, when you lift your lift leg foot obviously ends up in a position that is out toward the base line. When it comes down, it needs to get back in line with the post leg, correct? Does this happen before the hand break, or does it stay closed and line up fully on landing?
I’m afraid we are going to have an ugly weekend. We have the Creighton U showcase this weekend. We’ve been working on improving some of the faults but it’s going slow. Really since we’ve been on a tight schedule with showcases, we’ve focused on his leg swing, and bracing his front knee. I thought the leg swing would be relatively easy to fix, but I was wrong. That habit is really ingrained and it’s been difficult. Bracing the knee has gone better, but he the harder he throws the more it slides forward.
We threw yesterday, but I didn’t get any video (not happy about that). The local indoor facility we use had camps going on and they put us in this little area on a cheap portable mound (not happy about that either), with no room in the room to set up the camera. It was a frustrating outing as his timing was bad and he has too many thoughts in his head. We’ll throw again tomorrow (Wednesday) and that will be the last time before Saturday. Hopefully it will go a little better so he doesn’t take a bad outing into the showcase.
We’ll have 2 weeks until the next showcase. Is it best to continue to work on the areas we have been, or should we be starting with something else?
Thanks for the analysis. Funny, I was clicking through frames last night and I kept thinking about getting it right at the beginning. After a few minutes I became fixated on the front leg, but I didn’t reach a conclusion whether that was causing a problem or not. So, I’m really glad you brought that up.
The front leg not bracing is something I noticed right away. We worked on bracing a little the day we taped, but he had trouble doing it on the mound. He did betterjust fine throwing with no leg lift. I think we’ll fix that leg coming around first, and it might make it easier to brace once he lands.
He’s throwing 80 now, and he was throwing 80 last year at this time too. That’s why I bought the videos and joined up, I know he has more there, but doing what we’ve always done wasn’t working.
Regarding the arm swing. Is the second side-view video, better than the last one? It seems after delaying his hand break, it put more flex in the throwing arm after break. Probably since he was short on time after delaying. He’s been kind of a long-arm thrower, which coincides with what you are saying about him being slow to get the front foot down.
Thanks for the reply. Matt is nearly 18. The counter rotation is what’s left of a large counter rotation that he’s had since the beginning. It’s nearly fixed.
I think the biggest velocity killers are the early rotation, and he gets very little MER. I suspect he loses enough velocity with the early rotation that he no longer has the lower body power to drive the pitch and has to produce the remaining velocity with his trunk instead.
I didn’t work on the lower body at the time of this work out, as I wanted to get some video up here first and get some thoughts.
Thanks for the reply. We had a good tape session this morning and we both learned a lot. I’ll be posting that in the video forum soon. He really has a lot of little clean up to do. It was surprising how many things we could find. His sideways motion looks ok. People have told me he over-strides. We lengthened that after the spring season. I posted this in another forum. My thought was that he couldn’t get the front leg braced up, but we worked on that this morning, and now I think he can, so I’m going to post video before I change anything.
But, we did see, he was breaking his hands early and high. He’s long-arming, but he’s getting the arm up in time. His lead elbow is dropping during stride. He’s starting rotation early. He’s landing on the front toe and starting rotation before the rest of the foot gets down. He’s releasing before completing rotation. He’s not bracing well and the back hip is having trouble getting over. He’s not far off on most of these, but they were sure easy to see going frame by frame.
We worked on bracing up the front and made some improvements today. We also got his hand break all the way down and later. After we made that change his lead arm went from being low to being shoulder height. We were both a little surprised by that.
Again, I’ll post video of today’s session soon.
We don’t have a lot of video of mechanics until I started taping a few days ago. However, from footage we shot during the season for colleges, I can tell some things from before. He was landing on a flexed leg, and the back hip does appear higher than the front. His nose was lined up pretty good, maybe a little forward. It looks like his rotation was starting a little early. Lead elbow was dropping already, throwing elbow looks nice. And the shoulder alignment looks nice.
I should note that after taping for the first time the other day. The upper body still looks the same. Now it looks like his back hip is lower than the front. The front leg really doesn’t brace up very well either. Also, I noticed he is landing on his front toe, and it really looks like he’s starting rotation before he gets the rest of the foot down.
The video I shot Wednesday wasn’t great because he was sliding on landing on the portable mound we were using. The video I shot this morning looks a lot better and I got more than one angle.
I’m going to post the video in the video forum when I get it loaded. Looking at it on the camera it really looks like there are a lot of fixes to make.